Katherine Jackson -- MJ Estate Lawyers are 'Greedy'
1/26/2011 12:20 AM PST by TMZ Staff
Katherine Jackson is unloading on the lawyers overlooking Michael Jackson's Estate -- calling them "greedy" ... and claiming they're filing lawsuits left, right and center just to make a quick buck.
In a recent interview from the Michael Jackson Secret Vault, Katherine says, "All these lawyers that are involved in Michael's business since he passed -- there's a lot of them -- I think they're trying to create different lawsuits and things because they're greedy and they want to get paid."
As we previously reported, the Estate is currently suing Katherine's business partner Howard Mann for allegedly profiting off MJ's name and likeness without their permission -- an accusation Katherine took very personally.
Katherine Jackson and Michael's children on GMA 02/25/11
Note: Pay attention to the end of the interview. Prince is on the board of the Heal the World Foundation. The "estate" says they are not connected to Michael. Brian Oxman went on record that they were and Katherine and Michael's children carrying on Michael's mission speaks volumes. Once again the "estate" does not represent the wishes of Michael and his family.
The "estate" is still at cross purposes with Katherine Jackson and her book. I agree to say that she cannot use the likeness of the child she gave birth to is ridiculous.
The family has tried to get the obviously fake will contested to no avail. The "estate" is being run by attorneys that were fired by Michael Jackson. No surprise that they would not represent the best interests of the family. Kudos to Katherine and the children for continuing Michael's legacy and charitable work in spite of the "estate".
IMHO Bonnie
Michael Jackson's older children seem set to continue in their late father's footsteps as entertainers, but they have their sights set on movies or acting.
"Good Morning America" anchor Robin Roberts talked exclusively with Katherine Jackson, the children's grandmother, and with the children themselves: Prince Michael, 14, Paris, 12, and Blanket, 9.
The children opened up about their lives and plans for the future. "I'm looking at a couple of opportunities in show business. Mostly producing," Prince Michael told Roberts in the interview that aired today on "GMA." He added that his interest in movie production was fostered by his famous father.
Jackson's mother, Katherine, told Roberts that her son took film-making classes with Prince. "We had a teacher from UCLA come to our house and we would do film classes there," Prince said. And when we were in Ireland, we would film a couple of movies with him, too."
Kids Want Future in Entertainment Paris wants to be an actress. "I'm thinking about auditioning for a play next week," she said.
The children are flexing their creative muscle at home. "Paris dresses up like a little waitress or something, and they shoot their little movies," their grandmother said.
Katherine Jackson said her grandchildren's interest comforts her, because they are doing what their father would have wanted.
The pop legend died June 25, 2009 after being administered a lethal dose of propofol, a powerful intravenous sedative. His personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the death of Jackson. The doctor has been ordered to stand trial for his alleged role in his patient's death. His attorneys have said he did nothing wrong.
Since the pop star died, Katherine has been raising his children. Despite the time that has passed, she still keenly feels the loss of her son. "There's not an hour of (the) day that doesn't go by that I don't think about my son. It's just that hard," she said.
Mom: 'Michael Had A Very Good Heart' "Michael had a very good heart," Katherine Jackson said. "People misunderstood him. All the lies that were told and the way he suffered from what these people had done to him, these wicked people. I get upset when I think about it. But … through all of that, he still kept his composure and he still … he wasn't angry inside. But he still tried to help children."
Now his children are taking over, following in their father's footsteps and giving to those in need. The children recently attended a charitable event on behalf of Heal the World Foundation. Prince Michael serves as a board member.
He said he and his siblings want to "continue what our dad was doing, like, helping children from across the world. And animals who couldn't speak up for themselves."
"Ditto," Paris added.
Their father was a controversial figure, and the controversy didn't end with the singer's death. Katherine Jackson is dealing with a copyright infringement lawsuit filed by her son's estate against her business partner, Howard Mann. Mann runs a Web site that features Michael Jackson's music, video and a book that Katherine wrote about her late son's life.
Mann and the charity Heal the World are both in litigation with the estate. The estate has obtained a court order prohibiting the foundation from using Michael Jackson's name, but Katherine and other family members still support it.
"I think it's greed, fundamentally," Mann told ABC News. "I think that the notion … that Mrs. Jackson is not able to use her son's name or the Heal the World foundation, is stopped by the courts from using Michael's name, is utterly ridiculous to me. I don't understand whose agenda this services, outside of maybe a group of lawyers."
In a statement to "Good Morning America," Jackson's estate said they believe Mann is making these allegations for his own financial gain.
"The current Heal the World Foundation has no relation to Michael Jackson's charity that touched so many lives before becoming inactive several years before Michael's death...The Estate does not believe Michael's children should be used to exploit a foundation that a federal judge found was not associated with Michael Jackson."
No Longer Homeschooled The children may remain committed to fulfilling their father's legacy, but they're also focused on living their lives as normally as they can. "This is the first time they ever had regular schooling. They always had homeschooling (before)," Jackson said of Paris and Prince. Blanket is still homeschooled.
"They seem to be adjusting to it well. They love it. I don't even have to make them get up, they just get up and get ready for school."
Prince Michael's favorite subjects? "Gym and lunch," he said jokingly. He also plays basketball, and recently won a season-ending game. "He's a beast!" Paris said of her brother's skills on the basketball court.
I watched the program this morning and I was sooooo proud of the Michael's children.
And, it is so sad to say that the foundation has nothing to do with Michael Jackson but, yet his mother and children are supporting it. That is about as close to be associated with Michael as I think one could get.
I loved what Robin said after the interview. She said that MJ's children have been to this building to work several times before and when one of the children saw Paris with Katherine's book of photos of MJ "Never Can Say Goodbye" - the child said to Paris, 'Oh you like Michael Jackson, too?' never knowing that Michael was Paris' daddy. That shows how humble and genuine these kids are! Michael did an excellent job!!
Did I read somewhere that Katherine has dropped her civil lawsuit agaisnt AEG?
Thank you for the updates, Bonnie. I haven't watched the interview with Katherine and Michael's children. It seems Michael's fans have mixed feelings and reactions about this interview and some of what they are perceiving. I have my own concerns and disappointments about some things, but people have to live their lives and discover things for themselves.
I wonder if Michael's children would ever consider working BEHIND the camera in the motion picture industry. I wonder if any Jackson family member would ever be interested in careers and occupations that don't involve publicity, talk shows and interviews, the limelight, fame and glory. There are plenty of fine occupations in the entertainment industry that are low key and require genuine skill, not just family connections, marriage connections, internal politics, etc.
How about careers in nursing, medicine, law, veterinarian/ animal care, graphic arts, special effects, sound effects or sound engineering, etc. There are so many other non-show business related occupations out there to choose from. . .
The children will be financially set for life, most likely, so I would personally be most impressed if they devoted a large part of their lives to humanitarian efforts and causes, and/or protecting animals and/or the environment. When people are financially free and set for life - in this case thanks to their father, Michael, and the fruits of HIS labor and HIS personal sacrifice, they are free to choose, to create, to do, and to volunteer. I am a little concerned that so many Jackson's seem to enjoy the spotlight and lime light - just a tad too much, in my opinion.
That's NOT what Michael was about. He had his time in the spotlight and was an entertainer, but I don't believe he chose his occupation for mainly attention and fame. He was BORN to do and achieve what he did. And he benefitted mankind with his many gifts and talents.
I find myself wondering what the true desires and motives of some Jacksons are. I don't wish to judge or speak unkindly of his family, as they are not for me to judge. But I do have my concerns and feelings of disappointment.
Thank you Bonnie for posting this video. I am sure Michael is very proud of his children!
Kudos to Katherine, I liked how she told Prince to sit up. Wish more parents this day in age had some of her parenting skills. I think she is a great Mother/Grandmother.
I have seen other interviews done by Robin Roberts which were positively oriented toward Michael. It is good to see that they aired Katherine's position in this situation.
The children seem really well-adjusted. Yes, it is wonderful to see that they are carrying forth their Dad's tradition of caring for children and animals.
It is quite obvious that Michael, as a father, instilled his own deep sense of compassion for others in his children. He did an incredible job passing on good values to them.
Kudos to Katherine as well for her strength and composure and determination in taking on the rearing and nurturing of Michael's children.
Prince sounds very much like my teenage son with his "lunch and gym" reply :) Typical cover from a boy who does not want to be thought of as nerdy by other boys, if he were to admit he likes school and gets good grades.
Thanks for posting the ABC interview, Bonnie.
Hugs, Irina
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2011 10:12 PM
Thanks for posting, Bonnie! I finally had the chance to sit and watch the interview.
It is wonderful to see them carrying on the charitable work Michael pursued all his life. Because they are not really "child stars" as we know them to be, I sincerely hope they will avoid the Hollywood pitfalls and pursue their dreams whatever they may be, even if it keeps them in the entertainment industry.
Since show business is what they know, it makes sense that they would look to that as a career choice first - but kids tend to change their minds a million times before deciding what they really want to do with their lives. It will be interesting to see how they continue to grow and change!
Michael would be SO PROUD of them :) Robin Roberts does some of the best interviewing IMHO - positive, sensitive, genuine.
The more I see of Katherine the more I can see why Michael thought she was a saint. In so many ways, she reminds me of my own grandmother - and reminds me that "The Jacksons" are a real family. As an entertainment family they are sometimes very abstract to me. Hearing her speak and seeing the kids brings back home that there is so much more than meets the eye - when most of what we see and hear comes from a slanted media base....
She raised nine kids and dealt with things that only a woman of strength and strong faith could have survived through. She passed to Michael what Michael passed to his children. The hope now is that they pass it on to Michael's grandchildren some day.
I recognize Taaj as one of the faithful and constantly present Michael Jackson fans and supporters whom I have seen every single time I have attended a court house hearing. You will see her in a number of my videos covering the court house events. I don't know her personally, but the one time I did interact privately with her, she was very kind, considerate and gracious.
I do respect her opinions and her positions on the topics she covers, but that does not mean that I agree with all of her statements or take her statements at face value and as 100% accurate and factual. I do hope my honest opinion will not offend anyone here, but I personally require a lot more proof and verification of some things before I stand with an expensive microphone in my hand and have an experienced camera man at my disposal. I respect her feelings, her thoughts, her gut instincts and her efforts. If she has received valuable information from inside sources, I respect that, but at the same time, I reserve the right to know exactly who those sources are and why they are to be trusted. It's very hard to convince people of something as being true when you yourself have inside information or additional knowledge that others do not.
I know she loves and respects Michael and wants only the best for his mother and his children.
Doing a little online research regarding Howard Mann, I am very frustrated to find that there are MANY individuals, alive and deceased, named Howard Mann. It would be very easy to confuse one Howard Mann with another if one only has his name to go by. I am posting some links with their corresponding stories to cite some examples of information pertaining to Howard Mann. I believe these stories refer to the same Howard Mann that Katherine Jackson is dealing with.
Speaking only for myself, I don't believe for one second that Howard Mann's business interaction and association with Katherine Jackson is based on good heartedness, kindness, sensitivity or altruism. In my opinion, he's a shrewd, clever and highly intelligent and opportunistic business man, and I think he made an offer Katherine could not have easily refused. I don't know Katherine personally, but my gut instincts and intuition tell me that if there had been another way for her to achieve her goals or to have her needs met, she would have gone another way. I'll leave it at that.
The following is just information. I don't know how accurate it is. People will have to think for themselves and do some research of their own to make sense of this information. I know where I personally stand on it. I don't judge or condemn Howard Mann, and I don't consider him a bad person or a bad human being. I don't look down on him. I do not judge him. I just personally think he saw an opportunity and he ran with it. Out of love for her son, and her financial needs, Katherine Jackson has chosen to 'run' with him. That's my personal opinion. I cannot state my opinions as fact.
Michael Jackson's Mom Linked to Nude Online Gambling Operator A developer of online gambling sites that feature live nude dealers is working with Michael Jackson's mother to seize control of unreleased songs from the pop star.
As the fortunes to be made exploiting discovered recordings and remnants from Michael Jackson's estate draw groups edging to feed first and longest, Michael's mom has been linked to a Toronto businessman credited with operating, according to TMZ, "online nude gambling." Howard Mann is partnering with Katherine Jackson in releasing and promoting a memoir concerning the pop star's life.
Mann and Jackson also are reported by the celebrity gossip site to have plans to release 273 Jackson tracks previously unreleased. But the executors of Michael's estate say the songs are not theirs to release, and claim any profits to belong to the estate.
Mann is a Toronto businessman who made money running both Internet casinos and erotic websites. He had combined both his businesses into a site called Grand Nevada, which featured live nude dealers for blackjack and other table games.
Opponents of Katherine Jackson's claims to her son's estate have prominently mentioned Mann as being in "online nude gambling." By labeling him simultaneously with the taint of pornography and gambling, combined with the unknown and therefore distrusted Internet, foes hope to discredit the legitimacy of Katherine Jackson's case.
The Grand Nevada site could not be located today, despite rosy proclamations by Mann that nudity combined with Internet gambling is the future of online casinos.
"Now people can play real casino games in real time, with real live sexy dealers, just like in a real casino, except at GrandNevada.com, the dealers are either wearing bikinis or are topless," said Mann when the site was established. “We have booked several adult film stars to deal live and in the proverbial flesh.”
Mann appears as determined to control the uncovered Jackson songbook as he was to push the online gambling envelope. But estate attorneys are prepared to make sure he finds failure again.
Michael Jackson estate suing Go Daddy over casino Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010 Yesterday I reported that the Michael Jackson estate is suing over a shady online casino that uses MJ’s name and likeness. Now things are getting bigger and nastier. A separate lawsuit will now involve GoDaddy.com, the popular domain name registrar.
As mentioned yesterday, Michael Jackson Casino features a number of photos of Jackson from different movies, videos, posters and other promotional spots. Howard Weitzman, an attorney for the Michael Jackson estate, is suing the company over using his name and likeness without permission. Now another Howard – Howard Mann, to be exact – is suing the online casino and Go Daddy, claiming that he owns the copyright to the photos featured on the website.
Go Daddy is perhaps best known for their commercials that feature hot women (sometimes Danica Patrick) in ridiculously innuendo-laden situations. They also sell domain names and host websites, though, in case you were wondering.
I’m not a legal expert, but it seems unlikely that Mann could win a lawsuit against Go Daddy. All they did is sell the domain name to the casino and agree to host the site. I don’t believe they have any legal obligation to make sure the content of the site does not infringe on the copyrights of others. Even Mann admits that the reason he named Go Daddy in the lawsuit is to “flush out the name of the person” who owns Michael Jackson Casino. That casino owner is currently unknown.
A Go Daddy representative said that the company will “vigorously defend itself.” He also stated that when their “customers are involved in a legal dispute, Go Daddy complies with court orders.” Mann is seeking more than $100 million in damages from both websites.
Aside from claiming ownership of the copyright to Jackson’s images, Mann co-authored a coffee table book on Jackson and is producing a new documentary with Katherine Jackson. That documentary itself is not without legal controversy, with the Jackson estate claiming exclusive rights to Jackson’s name and image while Katherine Jackson and Howard Mann claim ownership as well.
*No Michael Jackson photo accompanies this story because I don’t want to get sued next.
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Michael Jackson family linked to nude online gambling site
Thursday, June 24th, 2010
First a disclaimer: The original source of this story is TMZ. Now, I don’t usually pay any attention to TMZ and I consider it to be one of the worst websites and TV shows on the planet. However, I stumbled upon this story and it was too interesting not to relay.
As those involved with Michael Jackson position themselves for wealth, ownership, rights and everything else, a lot of bizarre stories have come up. This is one of the craziest. Michael’s mom, Katherine Jackson, plans on releasing a memoir on the King of Pop as well as 273 previously-unheard songs. The Michael Jackson estate is fighting her on both counts, saying that she does not have the authority to do so.
To release and promote the book and songs, Katherine Jackson is partnering with a man named Howard Mann. It seems that Mann has the masters to those unreleased tracks. Mann, a Toronto entrepreneur, happened to be a huge Jackson fan and had bought a warehouse full of paraphernalia. Included in all of that mess supposedly is 273 unreleased tracks that would make a ton of money.
None of that is surprising and it doesn’t have anything to do with online gambling. What is relevant is how Mann is being described by the media and by those who oppose their plans. They describe his business as “online nude gambling” and sometimes call him an operator of online nude gambling sites.
The questions I immediately had were as follows:
1.There are online nude gambling sites? 2.Why haven’t I heard of them before? 3.Why didn’t I think of that? I would be rich! 4.Where did I put my credit card?
Mann has been involved in many business ventures, among them online casinos and erotic websites. Then one day, it occurred to him to combine the two. This happened in 2006, which means from the time the internet was popularized sometime in the 1980s until 2006, somehow no one else had thought of that idea. I’m kicking myself right now.
The website was GrandNevada.com and it was an online gambling website where you could play poker, blackjack or roulette with nude dealers. According to Mann in 2006, the casino allowed people to “play real casino games in real time, with real live sexy dealers, just like in a real casino,” except at his casino “the dealers are either wearing bikinis or are topless.” Many of the dealers were supposedly porn stars.
Before you leave my website to Google Grand Nevada, I should tell you that the website no longer exists. I don’t know how that could happen, because a website like that should be very popular. With the casino gone now, maybe there’s room for my own…
Look for a Gambling Review nude casino sometime soon.
By Roger Friedman hollywoodnews.com: There’s a new man in Katherine Jackson’s world. Or make that, Mann.
Howard Mann is Mrs. Jackson’s new business partner. He tells me bought the assets of Henry Vaccaro out of bankruptcy, including the New Jersey warehouse filled with Jackson family memorabilia.
The warehouse included many personal items from the family including letters and some things that might caused embarrassment had they made it into an auction.
Mann quickly contacted Mrs. Jackson and made a deal with her. He returned personal possessions, and in exchange started to develop projects. The first is Mrs. Jackson’s book of photographs coming this Monday, called “Never Can Say Goodbye.”
Mann, who is from Toronto, made his money with online gambling. His 121 Gaming company –described as a celebrity driven, erotic content provider–.got so successful that in 2006 he introduced online “nude” gambling. He created a site called GrandNevada.com and told a gaming website: “Online gaming will never be the same. Why would anyone choose to play against a boring online video based game that could be altered to drastically favor the house? Now people can play real casino games in real time, with real live sexy dealers, just like in a real casino, except at GrandNevada.com, the dealers are either wearing bikinis or are topless.”
Mann continued: “We have booked several adult film stars to deal live and in the proverbial flesh.”
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This link is to a message board thread dated from July 30, 2006. If this is the same Howard Mann as the person associated with Katherine Jackson, then this former online business venture connected to Mr. Mann may be the truth and not just a rumor. Howard Mann had no interaction with John Branca or the Michael Jackson Estate back in July 2006. If Mann and Branca had ever met previously, I have not read any accounts online stating so. Michael Jackson's Estate certainly did not exist in 2006. Therefor, Taaj's statement that it is THE MICHAEL JACKSON ESTATE THAT IS CREATING OR ORGANIZING A SMEAR CAMPAIGN AGAINST HOWARD MANN BY LYING ABOUT HOWARD MANN AND HIS EROTICA OR PORNOGRAPHY PAST is incorrect. Howard Mann was into certain things long before Michael Jackson died, long before he met Katherine Jackson and long before his estate took control. I respectfully submit to each of you reading this that we absolutely MUST be diligent in thinking for ourselves and doing our own research. I respect Taaj Malik 100%, but that does not mean that I must agree with everything she says.
showbiz411.com
http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=25505
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2011 8:07 PM
I do not in the least disagree with your observations concerning Katherine and Howard Mann's business relationship. It may very well be that Mann is being opportunistic here.I am not buying any version of the story until I see further evidence pointing me in either direction.
However I posted Taaj's video here because of its broader message.
She does state some basic truths about Katherine's situation. That being Katherine having to look for avenues outside the estate to earn income to support herself and her grandchildren.
Obviously there is something very wrong here in the way the estate is dealing with Katherine. And on this point I feel all of us agree.
With Love, Irina
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2011 8:54 AM
I agree. The Will the estate is based upon is highly suspect as to its authenticity. Joe Jackson has tried to contest the Will and has publicly stated it is fake, as have many other people.
Katherine is correct when she says she and the children are the estate and the attorneys are there to handle Michael's business. The attorneys should be working for Katherine not against her. It has been clear on many occasions that the attorneys are not working for Katherine and the children and putting her on an allowance is insulting. She needs the money so it has also prevented her from going after them.
I did some research on the Heal the World Foundation and they do own the trademarks they say they do. Brian Oxman has publicly stated they had Michael's permission to run the foundation.
I have first hand experience with trademarks. The research on conflicts by the Patent and Trademark office is extensive. You are not granted a trademark unless they feel it is free and clear and does not conflict or infringe on any other trademarks. Just the fact that the Heal the World Foundation has ownership speaks volumes to me. Michael and his attorneys must have granted permission or at the very least not contested their application. The Patent and Trademark office under normal procedures would have contacted the attorneys of record regarding any conflicts with other trademarks owned by Michael or any of his corporate entities.
Katherine and Prince are also actively working with the Heal the World Foundation. Prince is on the Board of Directors. Once again the family also feels this foundation had Michael's blessing or they would not be active participants.
The estate attorneys have some explaining to do in my opinion.
Katherine Jackson -- MJ's Executor STOLE From Him by TMZ Staff
Michael Jackson's mother says one of the guys in charge of the MJ Estate is a crook who stole from the singer ... and to top it off, she claims Michael never even liked the guy ... this according to new legal docs obtained by TMZ.
Katherine Jackson just filed a declaration in a case involving MJ's old charity -- the Heal the World Foundation.
According to the docs, Katherine is FURIOUS the estate is going after HTW for using MJ's image and likeness without permission ... and insists, "Michael would be very upset, if he knew that our charity was being torn down by people who say they are doing what he wanted."
Katherine then goes after MJ executor John Branca -- saying, "Mr. Branca was a man that my son was very worried about."
She adds, "Michael told me on more than one occasion that he did not like this man and did not trust him, he told me that John had stolen from him."
Katherine continues, "This lawsuit is exactly the type of awful thing that Michael said he was capable of doing."
Katherine Jackson, Mom to deceased pop legend, Michael Jackson, has slammed the executors of her son’s estate for bringing a lawsuit against his own charity.
John Branca, and John McClain, executors of Michael’s estate, filed a lawsuit against Melissa Johnson and the “Heal the World Foundation” because the Estate did not give permission for Michael Jackson’s name or likeness to be used by the charity.
However, Katherine Jackson has hit back at the executors in a sworn statement. She has pointed out that Michael was involved with the charity before his death and this lawsuit would not have been what he wanted, so it should not be advanced in his name by his executors.
Katherine said, “It is not my desire, nor would it be the desire of my son Michael, to continue this lawsuit against Heal the World Foundation. Michael would be very upset if he knew our charity was being torn down by people who say they are doing what he wanted.”
In an earlier bid to stop this lawsuit, Katherine, Michael’s father Joe and brother Randy Jackson all joined the board of directors of the Heal the World Foundation last year (2010). But executors advanced the case, despite initially giving Katherine to understand that they would withdraw it, once she had made her decision clear to be involved in the charity. She also stressed that Michael’s children were against the executors’ decision.
The case is scheduled to go to trial on Friday, April 29.
She then went on to make a shocking claim: “Nearly two years after my son’s death the estate’s funds are being used to hire lawyers that suppress my family’s ability to support charity, instead of giving away the 20% according to his wishes.”
“Continuing to sue his charity, even a charity that myself and my son’s children support, is only one example, where the estate executors are doing the opposite of what Michael wanted…”
It does seem unfortunate that a charity that Michael Jackson chose to support in life should be denied by lawyers presuming to speak for him after his death, doesn’t it?
This is excellent on Katherine's part. I hope the family will keep the momentum going. This maybe the opening of the door to expose what is really happening with Michael's estate and what the executor's have been up to.
Thank you for the update Bonnie!
Hugs, Irina
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2011 8:48 AM
If we are to take TMZ at their word, the signatures look like they were done by the same person. But then again it is TMZ we are speaking of and they are not held to high journalistic standards. I really do not trust anything they report.
Last Edited by on Apr 13, 2011 5:54 PM
Quote TMZ- "Sources familiar with the situation tell TMZ ... some of the people who have Katherine's ear have it out for the Estate and actually wrote the declaration with the accusations and were upset that Streisand blew the whistle on them."
Sounds like the declaration WAS written with Katherine's consent.
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2011 8:54 AM
Katherine said Branca stole from Michael in a legal declaration statement and meant every word. Funny how TMZ did not publish the declaration document and took every twist and turn to confuse the issue.
Katherine is on the board of the Heal the World Foundation and backs them 100% in the lawsuit filed by the estate attorneys for Michael Jackson related trademarks, currently owned by the Heal the World Foundation. Katherine is very clearly telling everyone that Michael was connected with the charity and they choose to be connected as well.
Katherine fired her attorney when he claimed the declaration document was false. Meaning that she really did sign it and is standing by her statements.
Perhaps Katherine is getting fed up with attorneys who claim to speak for her while trying to discredit her at the same time. If I made an official declaration statement regarding a legal action and my attorney said I never made the statements contained in the declaration I would fire him too.
Keep in mind the Will presented by the estate attorneys is highly questionable. Joe Jackson has tried to contest the Will but the court would not hear his case. Perhaps Katherine is taking the opportunity to tell the world and the courts that the estate has been hijacked with a fake will. In the case against the Heal the World Foundation the standing of the estate attorneys is relevant. If it can be proved that the estate attorneys are not acting in the best interest of Michael's heirs and the judge allows the questioning of the Will, then perhaps this can all be rectified to the best interest of the family. The estate attorneys always seem to be at odds with the family. This makes no sense, the estate attorneys are supposed to be working for the best interest of the family. Clearly not the case here.
At least we can be pretty certain not to take TMZ at their word. This example is very revealing of their modus operandi.
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2011 9:47 AM
There is a "declaration filed with the court" highlighted which links to a PDF document in which Katherine's statements (or supposedly her statements) can be easily read and seen. When I read it, it sounded very much to me EXACTLY like words she would use and things she would say. How would her signature be obtained without her permission? She supposedly signed this document and her signature portion was supposedly faxed in.
Whatever the case may be, it's important that if a member of the Jackson family is going to put something out there, be it statements or signed documents, he or she should not back down from the action taken. If a choice was made to issue a statement, than stand behind it.
If Katherine is at odds with her attorney, then it's appropriate for her to seek other representation. I can only hope that none of her family members, or anyone from the "Heal the World Foundation" which she chooses to support has done anything behind her back and/or without her spoken or written permission.
~Carmen~
Edited to Add: The document I'm referring to is in the TMZ link and article Bonnie posted on the 13th. It reads like her words spoken in some kind of interview, or an official statement made and put in written form. If those are her words and/or her feelings, she should stand behind them openly and honestly with no apologies given. She and her attorneys need to be on the same page, so to speak.
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2011 10:28 AM
Thx Carmen, I missed the link to the document (see above link in blue text). Katherine does not use the word "stole" in the document, but she does make it clear the estate attorneys do not represent her best interests or Michael's wishes.
I still feel that these are Katherine's words and she wanted them documented with the court.
It is interesting that she states her views on the estate attorneys were not aired by the media on more than one occasion. I wonder why not?
Kudos to GMA for doing the story anyway. Too bad they did not go further with Katherine's concerns.
Please also refer to my comments dated March 31, 2011 regarding trademarks. Ms. Bain clearly states not only did Ms. Johnson have Michael's blessing to run the Heal the World Foundation but was also referred to his legal counsel on obtaining and maintaining the trademarks.
I am so glad these people are stepping up.
PS...This declaration was posted on the internet by Taaj Malik. See her statements in the video above.
This is incredible. Bonnie you are correct. The trademarks had to have been cleared by the patent office prior to allowing Heal the Word ownership.
You may recall my calling this tangle on the part of Heal the World with the Estate the "wild card". It is certainly turning out to be just that and creating a window of opportunity for all concerned with the actions of the estate to speak up. These truly are very encouraging developments.
I also personally believe, feel and sense that the executed declaration in lieu of direct testimony is a statement obtained from Katherine Jackson. I can only hope the statement was obtained with her full awareness and permission and that everything within that declaration is exactly as she worded it and wanted it.
Regarding GMA not choosing to air, or not being allowed to air, Katherine's full, unedited and complete interview, my personal instinct tells me that if we were to look far enough and deep enough behind the curtains, we would find a human common denominator. That human common denominator influences Michael's Estate, Sony, AEG, the main stream media and possibly orchestrated his death or played a role in it somehow. Attempts to get any REAL version of the truth out to the public will be stopped and suppressed, and it's being done by human common denominators. They have the power, and they use it unseen.
If Katherine wishes to bypass the MSM, she'll have to build her own official website - and leave any photos of Michael Jackson OFF of it so as to not rile the Estate, which will use that excuse to shut such a website down. She can bypass the MSM is she wishes to. That will be up to her.
Yes, Irina, the 'tone' of the words sounds very much like Katherine giving an oral statement or an interview, with her words being transcribed. The specifics could not have been presented randomly; they were thought about and written down most likely prior to this executed declaration being given. Either she had her notes with her, or the attorneys for the HTW organization prepared them for her.
Regarding Raymone Bain's executed declaration in lieu of direct testimony, I would like to remind people reading this document that the document in and of itself is not proof of anything. It is only Raymone Bain's statement. In other words, what we are reading in both her declaration as well as Katherine's is the written equivalent of what would be oral testimony were it presented in court. Her executed declaration, as it stands, has two mistakes made in the same paragraph, which should have been corrected. Is the legal counsel the Venable LLP or the Venable LLC?
Testimony in court is not, in and of itself, proof of anything. It is testimony - the words, views, opinions, etc, of the person making the statements to the court and having those statements made on record. People lie under oath, while giving testimony, so I don't automatically take any person's testimony as fact and truth. If I were a juror, I would have to use my head, keep my personal bias and emotions out of it, and look for signs of lying via body language, and I would pay close attention to the presentation of evidence, such as forms of documentation. Of course, neither Ramone nor Katherine has submitted documentation in these statements, although Katherine has been quite specific regarding dates and times. Her statements regarding some things could be verified, I'm sure. Ramone Bain's statements would be subjected to cross examination, and she would have to do a lot more than just supply a verbal summary of 'he said, she said, they said, and then we said, and then he did this and then we did that, and then. . .etc. Where is her proof of these conversations having taken place? Where is her documentation of Michael having 100% faith in this woman named Melissa Johnson?
Where is this Venable LLP or Venable LLC now? Ramone Bain will have to back up her statements with proof and documentation. It seems to me (and I can see attorneys are reading the MJ related message boards out there and responding accordingly) that Melissa has a very valuable potential witness who could really help her here. Let's see if that witness steps forward and supplies proof and documentation.
I find it strange that certain people are stepping forward now who were silent before. That's interesting. I wonder what held them back before. Whatever it was, it's not holding them back anymore.
Access to the name and rights to use the trademarks and websites for Heal the World do indeed represent "a window of opportunity." They also represent a tremendous amount of potential income or profit.
Melissa Johnson is going to have to prove her case, and it's going to take more than verbal testimony, in my opinion. I hope someone was looking down the road years ago, when Michael was alive, to prepare for this situation. There is ONE witness that should have the documentation needed to prove Ms. Johnson's case. Ramone Bain's declaration alone is not proof of anything, in my opinion. As a juror, I have listened to testimony in court. Testimony in and of itself is not proof. It must be supported with proof and must withstand cross examination.
Sorry to be the sourpuss here in the room, but perhaps through this particular party-pooper known as Carmen68, certain people out there who are reading this will get down to business and get their act together.
Much love, The SourPuss, Carmen :-P
Edited once again to add: Eye witness testimony might be considered proof, but it must withstand cross examination to be considered valid proof. Were there eye witnesses to all these conversations that took place between Ramone Bain, Melissa Johnson, Michael Jackson, etc?
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2011 10:01 PM
It is Venable LLP and their website is www.venable.com
You are correct there should be paperwork/billing records showing them working with Ms. Johnson on the trademarks.
The "why now" question I think has to do with the estate attorneys not dropping the case against HTWF when Katherine asked them to, after most of the Jackson family joined the board. It now has to go to trial and both sides would be gathering these types of declarations.
Thus far you have: Katherine Jackson, Brian Oxman, Taaj Malik, and now Raymone Bain saying the HTWF was an MJ charity. The estate attorneys have to prove they are not. The burden of proof is on them. The estate attorneys are the plantiffs. If they are not able to prove their case they face damages for publicly calling the HTWF a scam and the highly valuable trademarks would remain with their current owner which is HTWF.
Keep a sharp eye on what happens here. It could be a game changer.
Not sure if you've come across TAAJ's site yet: http://www.teammichaeljackson.com
There are items at this link related to HEAL THE WORLD FOUNDATION: http://www.teammichaeljackson.com/tmj_012.htm
You can then go to ESTATE V HTWF TIMELINE which describes the dispute and has some links showing documents addressing the trademarks: http://www.teammichaeljackson.com/tmj_274.htm
And as far as your "sour puss" self-observation, I think you are very much a pragmatist. That is what makes it all more of a discussion as opposed to everyone nodding in agreement all of the time. You certainly make things more interesting and challenging. Not to worry.
Hugs! Irina
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2011 4:38 PM
Thx for the link. It sure looks like Ms. Johnson has plenty of documents to present to the court. Like I say the estate attorneys have to prove this charity is not associated with Michael.
It is a shame the media does not fact check before calling people scammers.
As you know I am a big fan of evidence as opposed to gossip. HTWF has been very forthcoming in showing all of us their documentation. It will be very helpful in following the case.
I have the same sick feeling that you do Chaturi. I wanted to see this lawsuit go to trial and I wanted to see them win against the estate attorneys.
The estate attorneys must have thought HTWF had a decent case or they would not have given them anything. TMZ is reporting Katherine Jackson and Melissa Johnson are still on the board.
Pretty interesting since the estate attorneys told the media HTWF were scam artists. Golly gee, looks like the estate attorneys lied. Certainly they would not partner with scammers, would they? Sarcasm intended.
IMHO, Bonnie
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2011 5:24 PM
I was hoping for the trial as well. It had the potential to dredge into view all that has been bubbling under the surface.
Seems like the attorney bait and switch played a pivotal role in the outcome. (I am referring to Katherine's change of attorneys right before this hearing.) This is just my gut feeling on this. The confusing reports about the authenticity of Katherine's declaration and her previous attorney's statements give me a funny feeling. I am going to stop here as I do not want to speculate too much having no inside information.
I agree that this was not the desired outcome for independence. It is disappointing to say the least. I truly wish it were a brighter set of circumstances for Katherine and Ms.Johnson in as far as being left alone to run the charity. The fact that they will no longer be able to do this without overseers is disappointing.
The outcome here clearly demonstrates the strangle hold the estate is laying on the Michael Jackson trademark.
In looking at this now that the charity has been accepted as legitimately belonging to Michael and absorbed under the very profitable wing of the estate, the expectation is that it should be allowed to function to its full capacity as designated; and with the estate now obligated to provide it all of the funding as per the currently known will.
My feeling is that we will be hearing more about this as I do not expect this to go smoothly.
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2011 11:48 PM
I just found this on Facebook but have no idea how credible it is...
On Tuesday 19th April 2011, @MJonlineteam said: From the Estate:
Press reports on TMZ and other media sites regarding the settlement terms between the Michael Jackson Estate and the Heal the World defendants are wrong. The Estate is taking back the Heal the World Foundation and all of the Michael Jackson trademarks it allegedly owned. The Michael Jackson Estate owns the Heal the World name, and neither Melissa Johnson nor her companies will ever be able to use Michael Jackson's name or the Heal the World name.
---------- "...be alive, be free, feel consciousness, subsciousness, being GOD..." MJ
"Secret meeting" hmmmm....Well there ya have it folks. It doesn't take much to connect the dots here. I can't seem to control my intended sarcasm on this topic. $$$$$$!!! I wonder if anyone really checked out Perry Sanders 'ethical' background before they brought him on board. It just all smells of further corruption to me.
Michael Jackson's mom talks about motherhood, family By Alan Duke, CNN April 26, 2011
Katherine Jackson said she dreads sitting in court for Dr. Conrad Murray's trial, which is set to start May 9.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS "A mother's job is never done," Katherine Jackson says Singer's mother launches her flower collection online "Flowers make me feel happy," she says She dreads the trial of the doctor charged in her son's death
Los Angeles (CNN) -- Katherine Jackson doesn't celebrate Mother's Day or birthdays for religious reasons.
But Michael Jackson's mother, who turns 81 on May 4, said she does believe in the tradition of sending flowers to a loved one.
"It means love, 'I was thinking about you today, so I'm sending you these flowers,' " Jackson said. "Sometimes when you might be feeling down and you get some flowers, it perks you up."
Jackson, who rarely gives interviews, spoke to CNN about the Katherine Jackson Flower Collection, which launches Tuesday on SendHerFlowers.com, just in time for Mother's Day.
"Flowers make me feel happy," she said.
While Jackson was eager to talk about flowers -- her favorites are red and yellow roses -- she was reluctant to speak on the record about what has made her feel sad lately.
Perhaps she would have the strength later to talk about her differences with the men who now control her late son's estate or the upcoming trial of the doctor charged in his death, but not yet, Jackson said.
She dreads sitting in court for Dr. Conrad Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial, which is set to last two months starting May 9, she said.
But she will be there, listening to testimony about how her son died. The judge has already ruled that prosecutors can show photographs from his autopsy.
"A mother's job is never done," Jackson said.
With the camera turned off, her frustration with the news media's coverage of the singer's life and death and of her family emerged.
For example, Katherine and Joe Jackson have sometimes been described as estranged. But after 61 years of marriage, they are still a couple in love, she said.
Her husband spends most of his time at the Las Vegas home given to them by daughter Janet Jackson, but it's not unusual for her to drive across the desert to spend a few days with her husband.
Joe Jackson often travels to Los Angeles to stay with his wife.
They sit together in court, sometimes holding hands.
She recently moved from the Encino mansion that was the Jackson family home for four decades and into a newly built mansion on a hilltop in Calabasas. Although the Hayvenhurst home is being remodeled, she hinted that she's not moving back.
With the camera turned back on, Jackson, who raised nine children and is now caring for Michael Jackson's three children, shared advice about motherhood.
She called it "the most important thing in the world."
"One thing about mothers -- they have to really be there for their children when they need her," she said. "They should be there at all times and know where your children are at all times. You must make your 'yes' mean 'yes' and let your 'no' mean 'no.' That's really the way to bring your children up."
It's the mother who holds the family together, she said.
"Yes, she's the glue that keeps the family going," Jackson said.
Just a quick heads up...I'm rushed as always, but just heard that there will be an exclusive interview with Katherine on the Today Show tomorrow, (Wednesday), so we can watch it or tape it.
Michael Jackson Estate Judge Approves MoveTo Sell Michael's House
The Michael Jackson Estate just got the ok from a judge to sell the Hayvenhurst mansion which Michael and the rest of the family called home for decades, and buy another home for Katherine and MJs kids.
But here's the thing. We've learned the Estate doesn't want to sell Hayvenhurst -- at least for now, because it's being extensively renovated. But the Estate now has the green light to proceed whenever it chooses.
And the judge made another order -- allowing the executors to put $30 million in the Jackson Family Trust for the benefit of Katherine, Michael's kids, and his charities.
Just read this on Facebook, written by Taaj Malik: _______________________ URGENT! RE: MRS JACKSON!! by Taaj Malik on Friday, February 24, 2012 at 1:26am ·
Some of you are aware of my connection to The Jackson Family! At this time I have been endorsed to share this message with you!
I know Howard Mann(Mrs Jackson Business Partner) Lowell Henry(Manager) and Trent Jackson(Care provider, bodyguard, driver, confident, Jehovah's witness brother, Nephew) personally, You may have read my concerns regarding there involvement with Mrs Jackson previously!
The three musketeers work for $$$$
These three men are PRESSURING Mrs Jackson into dropping the lawsuit against AEG,, I have notified other members of the Jackson Family!!
One of the Jackson Family members have allowed me to relay my concerns to YOU!,
There was no way i would keep this from you,
Mrs Jackson is very concerned, confused, isolated !!!!!!!
Do with this as you please,, I have done what i had to!!
I have nothing further to say on this,, Just watch the headlines!!!! -----------------------------------------
and on a further comment:
...the siblings and Mr Jackson are NOT happy!! There is a security system set up at the gate, no one gets in without Trents say so!! If any of the children want to see thier mom, they have to call and make an appointment,, she is constantly being badgered by these men whoes motives is only to PLEASE THE PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO MICHAEL JACKSONS MURDER!! MONEY TALKS!!! There is no stress on Mrs Jackson with this lawsuit, as you have read in the media, Randy Jackson is taking care of EVERYTHING!!!!! John Branca is working for AEG and $$ony!!! NOT MICHAEL JACKSON, HIS MOTHER OR HIS CHILDREN!!!!!!! They can not get to Randy, Joe, LaToya, SO THEY ARE TARGETING MRS JACKSON!!!!!!! ...what is REALLY going on, most eveyone is sold on THE PROPAGHANDA put out by John Branca and his PR firm! Distracted by the Immortal and and all the other "Merchandise" EVERYONE BRAIN WASHED!!! Can not see what is in from their nose,,, Look back to 2009, and 2010, did any of you see any public appearances with Mrs Jackson, the children, and JOHN BRANCA,, There was none,,, nothing,, Its clear how Mrs Jackon feels about Branca,,Now all of a sudden all these appearances with hi,, why??? Why is no one questioning this,, ___________________________________________________________
"...be alive, be free, feel consciousness, subsciousness, being GOD..." MJ
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2012 10:08 PM
Thank you, MlovesYou, for sharing Taaj's message on behalf of SOME Jackson family members. I know she means well and is loyal to Michael in her own way. Unfortunately, I have observed unpleasant interactions involving her with other fans and supporters during the Conrad Murray hearings, and I know that at least one or two restraining orders were issued against her by other fans.
This is not a good situation or foundation for a fan or supporter to be in while issuing public statements on behalf of an actor, singer, entertainer, or that person's family members.
I would caution her to be very careful about making public speeches or issuing statements on behalf of any Jackson family member, as I myself have been in a similar situation years ago involving a certain actor and his mother. This is a very precarious position for her to be in, and when the you-know-what hits the fan, none of these family members will publicly stand up for her. She's also walking into a situation that will create or fuel inner fan rivalry and resentment, which I have already seen over the past couple of years, first hand.
If the Jackson family members have any statements they wish to make, I respectfully suggest that each and every single one of them creates his or her own official website and issue personal and official statements to Michael's fans and supporters openly and honestly, without using, hiding behind or manipulating any of Michael's fans to do the work for them. They can own their own words and claim responsibility for their own statements.
I've personally been used, lied to, deceived and manipulated myself by a certain actor and his mother years ago, and I don't want any of Michael's fans and supporters to fall into the same trap. I'm not even remotely suggesting that Katherine herself would knowingly do such a thing or be a part of it, but many Jackson family members have their own goals, their own agendas, their own wishes, and their own way of seeing things, while each in their own way trying to honor and love Michael. I don't want Taaj or anyone else to get caught in the cross fire when things don't go well.
She needs to be aware of this. Sorry if this post offends anyone, but I thought it was important.
This is all very unnerving. If Taaj Malik is correct... that puts Katherine is a dangerous position. The same position Michael Jackson was in that contributed (in part) to his demise. The family was unable to get past security to help Michael.
Especially sense Michael's kids are effected I would want to error on the side of caution and dig a little deeper.
I understand your concern Carmen. I am thinking it must have taken a lot for Taaj Malik to expose herself to a possible slander charge. Especially after the background trouble you have revealed.
It is hard to sort through the accusations without all the facts... or a reliable eye witness.
Bonnie, does Michael get a since of foul play concerning the pressure Taaj Malik is saying is put on his Mom?
Maybe Michael has some insight he would like to share with us?
We are all dealing with the tragic circumstances we are witness to in our own unique way . Taaj appears to be a very passionate person. And perhaps this is why there are spillovers to where she misdirects her feelings. But from all I see, her heart is in the right place. And that is important here.
However I do not disagree that she may end up with no one, for whom she is doing the talking, coming to her defense in the case that she does run into trouble.
It is apparent from this relayed message that Katherine is not in a position to make public statements of her own. Another reason why she may not be speaking out herself is that she has had the experience of having to retract her statements in the past. Or perhaps having them be retracted without her consent. The latter possibility certainly not to be ruled out.
WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE HERE IS THAT AEG IS TRYING TO GET OUT OF BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE IN MICHAEL'S DEATH BE IT BY HOOK OR BY CROOK.
I hope that Katherine holds her ground and that the family does put out a joint statement concerning this. ~ Irina
Last Edited by on Feb 24, 2012 3:55 PM
Irina, I agree with your statements concerning Taaj and also can see where Carmen would have a concern. I do not feel we have all the information we need to make an informed decision as to Katherine's level of jeopardy. In my opinion the question is, when do we hold back and wait for more information and when should we start writing to a decision maker that could affect change. Katherine needs to be the person in charge and if someone is taking any part of that away from her that could have dire consequences; for Michael's children as well as Katherine.
I feel (mentally and physically) Katherine has to be exhausted after all she has gone through these last few years. This makes it harder to constantly keep the manipulators at bay. I hope her family is helping her with that to the degree that is needed.
In addition, I wonder if you have any insight into what is going on with Joe Jackson. He is dropping AEG in his lawsuit.
Here is the website that I extracted the information from:
Title: "AEG Dropped from Negligence Lawsuit filed by Michael Jackson's Father"
LOS ANGELES - The promoters of what was to be Michael Jackson's 2009 comeback tour won a round in court today when a judge granted a motion to dismiss the company from a lawsuit filed by the singer's father.
"This was a major victory," AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam said of Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos' ruling.
Not good!
If you know anything bonnie or anyone, please feel free to chime in. :)
I have read your posts and will respond with care and detail when I am able to do so. I'm at work at the moment, but as soon as I can, I will address your thoughts and concerns.
I will say here that by now, most of Michael's fans and supporters are probably aware that Katherine has been under ENORMOUS PRESSURE FROM MANY ANGLES AND DIFFERENT SOURCES SINCE MICHAEL'S DEATH. We can agree that we understand this.
Pressure will continue to be applied to her and the rest of the Jackson family by various people, corporations and 'forces.' That, in my opinion, is a given.
I also want to mention that I KNOW that Taaj loves Michael and truly supports fighting for him and standing up for his family. I don't question any of this in any way, shape or form. Taaj has ALWAYS been present during all the Conrad Murray hearings and pre trials I've attended, so I know for a fact that she is 100% SINCERE.
Yes, Michael has expressed the very same concerns many times. He has always felt that his children were under the same control grid that he was under. He was extremely upset when they were taken from his family home and place into another mansion. As you may recall this was dictated by the estate attorneys not Katherine. She has to do what they tell her to do; they hold the purse strings. She only gets an allowance to take care of the children. Michael is not happy that his children are being groomed for the business. He knows all too well what they are caught up in. It is very frustrating for him and for me to not be able to change this. The fans continue to feed the machine. They even buy tickets to the Immortal Tour with no Michael Jackson. As I pointed out before, Michael said that he thought they still needed him, but things go on quite nicely for them without him. This became 100% accurate when the estate backed Immortal tour booked at all the same venues that the This is It Tour was to play. I hear the ticket price is even higher than Michael's tour. Michael said follow the money and all the same players continue to profit from his death.
I also agree with Carmen that Taaj is putting herself at risk for speaking out.
Like Irina I hope at some point the family stands together and fights for justice. It is easy to understand why they don't. They will be ruined publicly and stripped of their ability to earn a living. Same as Michael was. The stories about him were never true but they were believed and it killed his career as well as the man. He went up against Sony publicly with Al Sharpton, where is Al Sharpton today? The champion of justice is silent when it comes to justice for Michael. WHY???
Bonnie, Thank you for the information. I remember you stating Michael's concerns in previous posts. It is good to have the information again to refresh my memory.
I just want to state that I would never go to the Immortal tour, or buy anything put out by Michael's estate because I realize the money is not going where it is intended. I am appalled that the judge gave the estate attorneys a rise, but I don't hear people calling them on this! Even the Judges are approving. http://www.jerseycityestateplanningattorneys.com/2011/12/jackson-estate-executors-get-a-pay-raise.shtml
Also "the executors of Michael Jackson's estate won't have to pay expenses from their share under the judge's order." The system is failing Michael as usual and erroring on the side of big business.
The executors of Michael Jackson's estate are not even trying to hide their theft. Anyone with half a pea pod upstairs would know this is not what Michael intended.
When I hear these injustices it makes me want to say: Hello...is this the United States? Really? It is as though Michael and his family are in some kind of "greed" nightmare with no end in sight.
Thank you Carmen and Irina for your responses. I look forward to hearing further insight and dialog concerning this subject.
